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Post by TwistidChimp on Sept 25, 2003 5:33:37 GMT -5
Hehe, I agree totally, pencil sketching by hand I find is a much more natural process (for me) and a good way to explore ideas faster than going straight into line art. And as for all this dont use layers stuff, I find its a little silly to tie one of my hands behind my back just for the sake of it. If were talking about hand shading and AA then I guess sure, its better to do it yourself, but this I find is due to the fact that the pro can do a much much better job of both by hand, using a smaller pallete etc.
Anyway, sorry, I'm taking away from the point of this thread, so I'll add that I'm really impressed with neota's tool, I have no idea how you go about making something like this but I'm impressed.
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Post by neota on Sept 25, 2003 7:24:20 GMT -5
since last writing, i fixed all of the known problems. now i only know of one problem that occurs in one test picture (a single vertical strip of antialiasing being way too long) trowa: it's a part of my sprite editor. it's just standalone currently so i can test it quickly. nemesis: works exactly the same. you must account for order of antialiasing (as i said, aaing color a then color b != aaing color b then color a, because colors get 'protected' after aaing is done for them. ). i tend to aa profusely, so i'll have to make some test case specifically to show colored aa. and it definitely could replace doing it by hand. the code i have now is really great at aaing almost anything (pep-level usually . i've looked at the result and had to touch up a few pixels, that's all. it beats doing it all manually, especially for people who aa a lot, like me or pep:) the system is designed to facilitate easy implementation of most of peppermint pig's, helm's, and camus's suggestions (eg customization of aa colors, realtime preview,etc.) of course, one of these things is limiting the aa to the original palette. something already implemented is a alpha lookup so you can specify the start/end alpha for each possible line length (1 - 256). loads of stuff to implement, i have taken notes from previous pixelation threads.
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Post by neota on Sept 25, 2003 8:11:35 GMT -5
new version of old image: new images (before; after) the second 'after' image is cropped in order to fit in the 15k limit. looks like i forgot to include some of the dark colors, so they didn't get aa'd. also, looks like i forgot to use the offset when calculating aa ramps. hmm.
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Omega
New Member
( ( Agl. * 2 ) / Def. ) * 8 = Evasion
Posts: 11
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Post by Omega on Sept 25, 2003 9:24:47 GMT -5
Pretty cool. I wanna download it when it's compiled. You should increase the amount of passes, though.
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Post by methinks on Sept 25, 2003 15:47:09 GMT -5
Heh so we have different opinions than again, heh :] Capcom is pixelart, just not true and strict and pure pixelart. Not, kinda, only... I mean they use otehr means, kinda accelerators. I do not use layers and do not scan as I want to do hte purest things ever. I use layers for my newest project only. Anyway layers may not be considered not-pure pixelling as this simplly helps stupid redrawing or stuff. You can do it the same way using a few images but hey, it is faster :] Stiill I do it pixel by pixel :]
Anyway do it as you wish, I just want to do it with as little means as possible. Probably wouldn't if I was doing it for money X]
[edit] only seen new images now :] pretty clever tool, heh. worked out pretty cool
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Post by neota on Sept 26, 2003 9:00:07 GMT -5
riva, re website: i am working on it right now. omega: increasing the number of passes would make no difference, and makes no sense. the algorithym is based around 'coverage', it's very much like a smart antialiased polygon renderer. all detail possible is preserved, so repeating the antialiasing process would have no effect. with optimal settings, absolutely all detail is kept. those latest images didn't use the alpha-offset correctly, once i fixed that the antialiasing improved back to the aforementioned 'pep-level' i am revamping it to use my actual coverage algorithym, so that it is more mathematically accurate. neota
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Post by Helm on Sept 26, 2003 18:02:04 GMT -5
Interesting. This would suit a better practical purpose as a post-effect on a game engine I think. not to say that since you can edit parameters it can't do much of the grunt work for you on a designing level. Thing is, sometimes we use more or less buffer shades in the same part of an image according to what sort of depth or angularity we want to imply. There's no way to do this with a computer because a computer does not excerise judgement in accordsance to abstract constructions such as depth or angularity, heh.
Neo, I suggest you add if you haven't already, a smudge mode and an opacity brush that are indexed-palette dependent. Meaning, they'll smudge using only parts, or whole of the palette according to selection. If you do this, you'll have in your hands basically advanced Deluxe Paint software whiuch is a very good thing to have, given what you're trying to go for. Color to target burn and dodge modes could easily follow then.
Auto AA like you're making is useful for me in the sense that it can lay down some basic uniform (or more selective, depends on how intuitive your options are) buffer shades and then I can go in and do the rest by hand.
Your innovation is very welcome as far as I'm concerned and purism I could do without. Please keep me posted.
So when are you thinking for a public build?
Moderator notice: (I know I'm not a mod here but technically I am on pixelation, heh)
Please stop it with the purism topic. This thread is about neo's automatic AA, not your oppinions on anything else. Thank you.
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Post by ScubaSteve on Sept 26, 2003 19:28:19 GMT -5
Make sure to post this on Pixelation when it's up again. I really want to try this program out. I think it would be helpful on large scale projects for me where I have dozens of things to draw and I need to save time
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Post by methinks on Sept 27, 2003 4:27:41 GMT -5
Please stop it with the purism topic. This thread is about neo's automatic AA, not your oppinions on anything else. Thank you. I believe that the idea of this forum was to entertain people while pixelation is down so I thought I can write about purism as I've felt like. Still I was relating to usefulness and allowness of the tool provided for my pixelwork. I've said that it is nice but as long as I don't go for commerce and do not do a lot of stuff ( I do very little and most of it haven't seen daylight) I will not use it. So it wasn't nrelated to topic. Anyway I'll cut it off, heh. And still will try it out on my unAAed pieces to see whether I can make it as good or better. Or worse. Sigh.
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Post by neota on Sept 27, 2003 7:44:28 GMT -5
Interesting. This would suit a better practical purpose as a post-effect on a game engine I think. if i can get it that fast , it would look completely amazing yep. like grafx2 has, i assume? ah, input/output limiting. working on the remapping system now. something strange is that a program i used to use, RSE, had palette-index locking and filtering of the applied brush area, but had no truecolor equivalent, despite supporting truecolor editing. noted. aaah. allegro makes that pretty easy, actually, it has functionality to generate lookuptables that combine colors according to a custom truecolor blender function. and it has the basic blend modes implemented (burn,dodge,multiply,..) i need to rip the table generation function out and add locking, alpha, and 16bit palette support (later) that's mostly done now. yeah, thats how i intended it with the scanline system i have a wide variety of options as far as options go; these are some of the things i'm investigating: + custom thickness per color or area (currently there is an assumed thickness of exactly one pixel + aa palette per color or area + colorrange limiting + output of intermediate image (which is a combination of an RGBA image (for pixelvalues) and an alpha channel + 'gamma correction' for alpha channel (ASAP. this improves results hugely in my manual tests. i've a gamma-curve correction implementation, just haven't hooked it up to the auto-aa yet.) basically, i have the facility to run it through practically any other part of my sprite editor (which, for later reference, is named 'use' - useful sprite editor) is mostly a matter of enforcing good design policy. thank you. i shall. when gbklib's gui is working and i've implemented interfaces for some basic tools. ui is the current obstacle.
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Post by Helm on Sept 27, 2003 19:39:40 GMT -5
methinks: you're actually right, I'm sorry for being all angry-mod. This forum is certainly not regular pixelation and I suppose rules enforcing when no FAQ and guidelines is up is a moot point. Carry on debating whatever you judge applicable and sorry again.
Actually, gfx2 borrowed the brush modes from Deluxe Paint. But yeah, basically. If you haven't, I suggest you download Deluxe Paint IIe for your PC and mess around with the brush setting and options. I trust you'll find some good ideas.
Seeing how right now besides Dpaint I haven't found any other decent advanced pixel art program with opacity brush support and brush modes (I dissagree with gfx2 for a number of reasons), yours has become something to look forward to. If you need beta testers I'll promise to bend it everywhich way.
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Post by neota on Sept 28, 2003 8:48:29 GMT -5
yes, you can betatest. intelligent assistance is always appreciated. wow, dpaint IIe is amazing. i'm taking lots of notes
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